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I've had a problem with an unknown parasite in my 45g tank for several months now. I will treat the fish, they get better for a few weeks, an then they start flashing on the plants again. I figured that the parasite was living deep in the gravel and was thus unaffected by the medication, and so to avoid further disturbance of my plants I removed all fish and placed them into two bare-bottom tanks for treatment, thinking that giving the 45g two weeks or so without any fish would allow the parasite to die out without a host.

I'm about 10 days into this experiment, and when I looked into the 45 today I saw over a dozen danio fry that appear to have just hatched. I realize that it is hard to tell without knowing what exactly is affecting the fish (they show no signs of the more typical ailments such as ich, velvet, anchor worm, or lice), but I'm wondering what the chances are that they have ruined my plan to starve the parasites, and if anyone has any suggestions as to what to do next.

For reference, I had 8 zebra danios, 4 angelfish, 2 pearl gouramis, 7 Amano shrimp, and 3 ottocinclus in the tank. The parasite seems to be relatively non-lethal, as I've only lost 2 danios and 2 ottos to it, and I'm usually not terribly quick about taking action when I see symptoms. Really the only symptom is the flashing, which I usually notice first in the gouramis or danios, and has yet to spread to the angels (knock on wood). The tank stays relatively warm (around 80) since I don't have control over my room temperature and the heat tends to be on full blast all winter.

Thanks for any advice,
-Josh

well...
I'm not expert enough to know the species names
...but in my experience different types of "ick"
behave differently
...generally based on the size of the parasite
and the size of the victim fish...
I have had cases
where
there were small fish and large fish in the same tank
...the big fish were annoyed and scratching
...but the baby fish died quickly...
I think because the baby fish have less body mass
and just can't survive the vampire action of the parasites
.................

large parasites like anchor worm and lice,
which cause secondary skin and blood infections in large fish,
simply are too big to attach to fry
leaving them virtually unaffected...

so any way
in your case
I'd try treating the main tank with the tiny fry
with
Jungle Parasite Clear fizz tabs
(we have them at the store now, 40 cents per 10 gallons)
...it has 3 or 4 paracides in it
1 of which should work
without hurting the plants

Thanks for the advice, Ned.

One more question: Will the parasite tabs hurt my shrimp? I left them in the 45, assuming they wouldn't be harmed by the parasite. Do you have any experience with maracide and shrimp? Thats the medication I currently have, and the instructions are somewhat dubious as to its use with invertebrates, so I've avoided using it when the shrimp are in the tank. Are there any parasite meds that can be safely used with shrimp?

Thanks again,
-Josh

the main ingredient
in some parasite medicines
that you must NOT give to shrimp is COPPER

Maracide in my experience is not strong enough to hurt aquarium animals
(or aquarium parasites, for that matter)

Jungle Parasite Clear
has in it
Praziquantel (hopefully good against internal worms)
N-4-Chlorophenyl amino carbon (probably a nasty insecticide)
difluorobenzamide (probably a nasty insecticide)
metronidazole (an excellent protozoa killer, we use this for Bloat often)
and
acriflavine (a bright green yellow dye ... METAL related ...probably sterilizes fish sperm and God knows what else)

so
anyway...
do not use
Jungle Parasite Clear on shrimp
...because the acriflavine might hurt them

So, after the two weeks I added the fish back, and sure enough they're scraping themselves on the plants again. I was wondering if there are any parasite medications that I can use with both live plants and shrimp, and if not, are there any that I can use with either one? I could remove the shrimp and/or the plants to treat the tank, but either of these would be an enormous pain.

Thanks for your help,
-Josh

I would look for toxins now
not parasites anymore....
just because fish scratching is caused by parasites
does not mean that
parasites cause fish scratching...
how about wierd metals in the tank?
a coin?
a razor blade?
a chemical?
overdose of plant fertilizer?
It's the environment, not an animal living in it ...
I think

Have you tried adding carbon, polyfilter, chemical pad? these are all easy ways of possibly removing toxins from the water. I have found some metals in rock before. If you have rocks that you found in your yard they may have carried any number of things with them.
Just my 2 cents.

-TheFishGuy

Interesting...

I fertilize with liquid Flourish Comprehensive Supplement (the one with trace elements) at the recommended dose once a week, but most recently the symptoms reappeared on day 6 of the cycle (6 days since I last fertilized). I also have Flourish Tabs in the gravel, but I don't have very many in the tank (less than recommended on the package). I also add 4 drops of Kent's Marine Iodine once a week for the shrimp, but again, I was on the 6th day since dosing when I added the fish back this time, and the symptoms appeared almost immediately. Oh, and I fertilize with CO2 during the day.

I do have one locally collected rock, but I think that the symptoms first appeared well before I added it to the tank. I'll remove it and see if it makes a difference.

Also of note is that, in order to catch all of the fish, I emptied about 80-85% of the water two weeks ago and replaced it with new water. Is it possible that the city water has something in it? I'm in Cambridge, and all that I add is TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator (it's cheap and seems to have relatively few chemicals). I'm skeptical that I have any heavy metals, because my shrimp seem to be thriving (the females are always carrying eggs).

I don't usually use carbon in my filter, but I will add some in and see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for the advice, and anything else you can think of would be appreciated.
-Josh

I just don't know
(all that stuff you mentioned sounds safe)
try taking out the rock
I don't think it will make a difference
but it won't hurt to try

you might want to try a
UV sterilizer....
I would recommend the largest one affordable with a very slow pump...
they really do work against virus
and also bacteria
and anything teeny weeny...
to kill phytoplankton (green water) any size will do...
but I killed virus
in a 500 gallon system
with a 200 gallon per hour pump
with an 80 watt UV
in 2 weeks
( I kind of suspect you have a micrscopic parasite or protozoa,
it must be a smart parasite because it is not killing the fish,
only annoying them, if I read your letter right)

We have all that equipment in stock at good discounts.

Ned,

What's the cheapest I could get away with for a UV sterilizer? I'm a poor college student, and I'm afraid it's well outside my budget. If it's possible to get the parts cheaply, I don't mind making it myself. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Josh

I have an 8 watt for $115
that would do

you also need a power head or other pump
maybe $40 ish

I'm going to need to think about that.

If I decide against the UV, I may just take all of the plants and shrimp out of the tank while I treat it with a tougher medication. I had three questions:

1) In the meantime, I thought I might add a small amount of salt to the water. How much salt is generally safe for plants? I have several species I know to be salt tolerant, but I also have some wisteria, dwarf lilies, and an amazon sword.

2) What medication you would recommend to really kick this thing, and do you have it in stock?

3) Do I need to be worried about the meds leaching back into the water from my sponge filter and hurting my shrimp once the treatment is over?

Thanks for all your help!
-Josh

1) In the meantime, I thought I might add a small amount of salt to the water. How much salt is generally safe for plants?
NONE
I have several species I know to be salt tolerant,
I THINK ONLY VALs CAN HAVE ANY SALT, & CERTAINLY NOT 2 TEASPOONS PER GALLON
but I also have some wisteria, dwarf lilies, and an amazon sword.
DON'T PUT ANY SALT

2) What medication you would recommend to really kick this thing, and do you have it in stock?
CAN YOU BRING ME A LIVE SICK FISH?

3) Do I need to be worried about the meds leaching back into the water from my sponge filter and hurting my shrimp once the treatment is over?
PRETTY MUCH IF YOU DO A HUGE WATER CHANGE, THEN PUT A HIGH GRADE CARBON IN THE FILTER TEMPORARILY, ALL THE MEDS WILL BE GONE.